tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2305748992717689879.post8097655908023499785..comments2023-06-15T10:00:08.666-04:00Comments on SBTS Bloggers: Little People In Little Places: The Average Size Of SBC ChurchesTony Kummerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04952864947581129429noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2305748992717689879.post-75499731394786353252007-05-02T22:41:00.000-04:002007-05-02T22:41:00.000-04:00Les,Thanks for your comments - and all your hard w...Les,<BR/>Thanks for your comments - and all your hard work on that data.<BR/><BR/>I wanted to throw this information out there because we all carry so many assumptions about what and who comprise the SBC. My opinion is the autonomous local churches comprise the SBC. That is how we have cooperated historically and for good reasons - inflated membership aside for now.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for dealing with these topics. I personally enjoy your blog.Tony Kummerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04952864947581129429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2305748992717689879.post-56036718910430968912007-05-02T22:32:00.000-04:002007-05-02T22:32:00.000-04:00Mark, Stephanie, Stephen, and Tony, You are correc...Mark, Stephanie, Stephen, and Tony, <BR/><BR/>You are correct in that the data I used was "Total Members" from the ACP. The reason this data was used is because the only valid study of this nature that I can find among all SBC research, reports the data according to "Total Members." The study to which I am referring can be found at <A HREF="http://www.namb.net/atf/cf/{CDA250E8-8866-4236-9A0C-C646DE153446}/Analysis_of_So_Bapt_Chs_by_Size_of_Ch,_1998.pdf" REL="nofollow">NAMB's "Analysis of Southern Baptist Churches by Size of Church" </A>. <BR/><BR/>I also agree with the comment that some churches with 1000 members have actual average attendance numbers in the hundreds is accurate as well. However, if one is to compare apples with apples, one is restricted to the data measurement of the original study. <BR/><BR/>I will seek to undertake a new study based on average attendance based on ACP but since there is not a foundational study on which to build, it may take a little time. <BR/><BR/>Tony, great job on the pie charts! <BR/><BR/>Regards, <BR/><BR/>LesWriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07212653606124739664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2305748992717689879.post-45710704573274208902007-05-02T22:29:00.000-04:002007-05-02T22:29:00.000-04:00I think this is a case where two different angles ...I think this is a case where two different angles are being presented on the same data - depending if you are a small church or a big one.<BR/><BR/>What does ACP mean?<BR/>Annual Church Profile: It's the data sheet that cooperating churches send to LifeWay each year. It has questions on membership, baptisms, average attendance ect. <BR/><BR/>Anytime you hear someone talk about # of baptisms among Southern Baptist Churches they are getting data from ACP.<BR/><BR/>The whole system inflates our numbers but it has been in place over many - many years. So you can get a lot of historical trends from it like baptism to membership ratio.Tony Kummerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04952864947581129429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2305748992717689879.post-62045421371821445282007-05-02T15:55:00.000-04:002007-05-02T15:55:00.000-04:00I see. I don't know much about messengers, and I'...I see. I don't know much about messengers, and I've never been to the Annual Meeting. That is probably why I didn't understand his question, "Should our Convention be run by churches or by membership?"<BR/><BR/>What does ACP mean?<BR/><BR/>By the way, I wasn't trying to say the graphs he put up were not helpful. I am just thinking knowing attendance would help me to better know what kind of churches a majority of Southern Baptists actually go to.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04706248219774291181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2305748992717689879.post-81690564769170116822007-05-02T11:13:00.000-04:002007-05-02T11:13:00.000-04:00Mark,That would be tremendous. I think Les took th...Mark,<BR/>That would be tremendous. I think Les took this approach because the way messengers are sent to the SBC based on membership.<BR/><BR/>But the numbers are ACP based so it is going to be flawed.Tony Kummerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04952864947581129429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2305748992717689879.post-41615482130125204302007-05-02T10:39:00.000-04:002007-05-02T10:39:00.000-04:00From what I can tell: top graph is just about numb...From what I can tell: top graph is just about numbers of churches. The bottom graph is about the actual number of people in the convention, and where they are. <BR/><BR/>It is interesting that 81% of the convention is in churches over 300 members. However, this does not at all mean most of our convention is in big churches. There is a good many of those churches have an attendance in the 100's. I personally know of two churches that run in the hundreds on Sunday mornings, with a membership of over 1000. Membership numbers seem fairly useless in the SBC due to the bloated nature of our roles. I would would like to see the percentages based on average attendance.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04706248219774291181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2305748992717689879.post-70214572520461739812007-05-02T05:09:00.000-04:002007-05-02T05:09:00.000-04:00Never mind, scratch that. I went back and reread ...Never mind, scratch that. I went back and reread and realized I'd played the numbers wrong in my head. :-PStephen Newellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02195331288968778323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2305748992717689879.post-51609733602860328302007-05-02T04:27:00.000-04:002007-05-02T04:27:00.000-04:00I gotta say, these two charts, taken together, are...I gotta say, these two charts, taken together, are somewhat confusing. If just over a quarter of our total members belong to churches of <I>less than 500</I>, why is it the largest concentration of members belongs to those churches that have <I>more than 500</I>? Maybe I'm just showing how bad at math I am, but every time I read the preceding sentence in this comment, red flags keep waving.Stephen Newellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02195331288968778323noreply@blogger.com